Well put Travis. At the end of the day I truly believe that we need to find a way to help victims feel free to speak but also demand evidence of their accusations. Also we need to look at the severity of the issue and act accordingly. Was this on the level of Wienstien or Cosby? I too don't have the answers. As someone who survived a suicide attempt I know for sure how dark a place Ed entered, and it sickens me that people found joy in putting him in that place.
We don't need evidence, and we shouldn't demand anything from victims. Because it's not up to us to get them justice. We should be asking the victims what support they need, and helping them find their safe space, and finding the resources they need to process their traumas. And we shouldn't be more angry at the abuser than the victim is. It's not up to us to determine all that. What we should be doing is providing an environment where victims feel more safe to come forward, because 10% of victims ever see their abuser spend a day in jail. That is a fucking abysmal statistic and just shows that whatever we're doing right now is wrong.
We love torch & pitch fork action when it comes to responding to abuse, but we hate actual, court room justice.
I'm for allowing the judicial system to do what the judicial system does. What I am saying is that the comments section doesn't need evidence of their accusations, because it's not up to the comments section to get the victim justice. That's what law enforcement is *supposed* to do (and failings of law enforcement and the judicial system is another conversation).
What I am saying is that our current culture makes it very difficult for victims to come forward and seek justice and recovery.
I would disagree I think we have made it very comfortable for them over the past 6 or so years. I also think that we need to leave some room for the possibility that people are lying and not destroy someone's life for that.
Before you say they don't lie. I have literally witnessed it multiple times in the small town I live in with the people being involved having no celebrity of any kind.
The way our culture responds to abuse is really fucked up.
First, I always believe survivors. I always want someone who has been victimized to find and have a safe space where they can name their abuse and seek justice. I also want survivors to find and have space where they can process their trauma in a healthy way, secure from the mob.
But the issue is deeper than that, innit? We know, statistically speaking, with empirical data, that abuse victims very often become abuse perpetrators. I forget the exact percentage, but it's significant. Which means that abuse is a cycle. (Duh, we talk about breaking the abuse cycle constantly...but that's all we do). Our culture only wants to react to abusers. And even then, it only wants to react to abusers that group-think decide are "gross". Female teacher sexually exploits a male student, it's "where was she when I was in school". Male teacher/female student, and it's a different story. Why? So when it's an abuse that we find icky, we brag about how harshly we would punish the perpetrator. But we never talk about how we prevent that perpetrator from becoming a predator in the first place.
In cases like Ed's specifically, we totally ignore the victims. I think it comes from our flawed judicial system thinking. Once you're reported a crime, your involvement in the restoration process is pretty much over. Nobody was talking about the victim's needs or wants. They just saw a target, and went all "seek and destroy". Now, two victims, who just wanted to be heard, have to add their involvement (and I'm not placing guilt by any stretch, they are not in any way culpable for what happened) in Ed's suicide to the trauma that they already had to deal with.
Travis, I'm sorry you went through the experiences you went through. It's a "there but the grace of god go I", because even though all I know about your incident is what you shared in this post, I know that in my past I've been shitty to people. We all have been. I'm 46 years old, and I'm an ever evolving person trying every day to better than yesterday. We all have mistakes in our past that would lead to us getting "cancelled" in one way or another. Every one of us.
More than that, we can't throw every person who does a bad thing away. I work with DCYF kids who have been abused and often have been abusers. We try really hard to help these kids; all of whom have developmental delays, history of sexual abuse, and are simultaneously going through puberty. But, fuck, it's hard. In many cases, because we don't like talking about these kinds of abuses, there is no accepted path to mental health. There's no data-informed treatment plan we can work from. We're creating the data as we go.
I saw a movie clip from a Denzel flick, I don't know the title, but he plays a defense attorney, and he says to a prosecutor (and I might be getting the quote wrong), "We are greater than our biggest mistake". And I always quote Henry Rollins who said, "The world is better with you in it".
I'm glad you're still in this world, Travis, and I'm sad that Ed isn't. And you're right, we can be compassionate and supportive of the victims, but also acknowledge that suicide is always sad.
This spoke to me in a different way. I have shared a similar sentiment with my students in terms of your 6 issues with cancel culture/the court of public opinion.
For some reason I was also drawn to read Ed's note yesterday, and I've run into similar fears in teaching, where allegations of literally anything can end the path I've dedicated my life to, and had to watch and walk on eggshells in every interaction with a student out of fear of context.
I wholeheartedly agree that both can and should be true, and instead of rushing for our torches and pitchforks, let legal issues work their way through the legal system, and we as individuals can make our judgements after a judge or jury have decided to do so.
Well put Travis. At the end of the day I truly believe that we need to find a way to help victims feel free to speak but also demand evidence of their accusations. Also we need to look at the severity of the issue and act accordingly. Was this on the level of Wienstien or Cosby? I too don't have the answers. As someone who survived a suicide attempt I know for sure how dark a place Ed entered, and it sickens me that people found joy in putting him in that place.
We don't need evidence, and we shouldn't demand anything from victims. Because it's not up to us to get them justice. We should be asking the victims what support they need, and helping them find their safe space, and finding the resources they need to process their traumas. And we shouldn't be more angry at the abuser than the victim is. It's not up to us to determine all that. What we should be doing is providing an environment where victims feel more safe to come forward, because 10% of victims ever see their abuser spend a day in jail. That is a fucking abysmal statistic and just shows that whatever we're doing right now is wrong.
We love torch & pitch fork action when it comes to responding to abuse, but we hate actual, court room justice.
So you are all for people being sent to prison based on the word of a single person?
Not what I said.
I'm for allowing the judicial system to do what the judicial system does. What I am saying is that the comments section doesn't need evidence of their accusations, because it's not up to the comments section to get the victim justice. That's what law enforcement is *supposed* to do (and failings of law enforcement and the judicial system is another conversation).
What I am saying is that our current culture makes it very difficult for victims to come forward and seek justice and recovery.
I would disagree I think we have made it very comfortable for them over the past 6 or so years. I also think that we need to leave some room for the possibility that people are lying and not destroy someone's life for that.
Before you say they don't lie. I have literally witnessed it multiple times in the small town I live in with the people being involved having no celebrity of any kind.
We are on two very different pages, I'm afraid.
The way our culture responds to abuse is really fucked up.
First, I always believe survivors. I always want someone who has been victimized to find and have a safe space where they can name their abuse and seek justice. I also want survivors to find and have space where they can process their trauma in a healthy way, secure from the mob.
But the issue is deeper than that, innit? We know, statistically speaking, with empirical data, that abuse victims very often become abuse perpetrators. I forget the exact percentage, but it's significant. Which means that abuse is a cycle. (Duh, we talk about breaking the abuse cycle constantly...but that's all we do). Our culture only wants to react to abusers. And even then, it only wants to react to abusers that group-think decide are "gross". Female teacher sexually exploits a male student, it's "where was she when I was in school". Male teacher/female student, and it's a different story. Why? So when it's an abuse that we find icky, we brag about how harshly we would punish the perpetrator. But we never talk about how we prevent that perpetrator from becoming a predator in the first place.
In cases like Ed's specifically, we totally ignore the victims. I think it comes from our flawed judicial system thinking. Once you're reported a crime, your involvement in the restoration process is pretty much over. Nobody was talking about the victim's needs or wants. They just saw a target, and went all "seek and destroy". Now, two victims, who just wanted to be heard, have to add their involvement (and I'm not placing guilt by any stretch, they are not in any way culpable for what happened) in Ed's suicide to the trauma that they already had to deal with.
Travis, I'm sorry you went through the experiences you went through. It's a "there but the grace of god go I", because even though all I know about your incident is what you shared in this post, I know that in my past I've been shitty to people. We all have been. I'm 46 years old, and I'm an ever evolving person trying every day to better than yesterday. We all have mistakes in our past that would lead to us getting "cancelled" in one way or another. Every one of us.
More than that, we can't throw every person who does a bad thing away. I work with DCYF kids who have been abused and often have been abusers. We try really hard to help these kids; all of whom have developmental delays, history of sexual abuse, and are simultaneously going through puberty. But, fuck, it's hard. In many cases, because we don't like talking about these kinds of abuses, there is no accepted path to mental health. There's no data-informed treatment plan we can work from. We're creating the data as we go.
I saw a movie clip from a Denzel flick, I don't know the title, but he plays a defense attorney, and he says to a prosecutor (and I might be getting the quote wrong), "We are greater than our biggest mistake". And I always quote Henry Rollins who said, "The world is better with you in it".
I'm glad you're still in this world, Travis, and I'm sad that Ed isn't. And you're right, we can be compassionate and supportive of the victims, but also acknowledge that suicide is always sad.
(sorry to necro-post, but this just came across my feed)
This spoke to me in a different way. I have shared a similar sentiment with my students in terms of your 6 issues with cancel culture/the court of public opinion.
For some reason I was also drawn to read Ed's note yesterday, and I've run into similar fears in teaching, where allegations of literally anything can end the path I've dedicated my life to, and had to watch and walk on eggshells in every interaction with a student out of fear of context.
I wholeheartedly agree that both can and should be true, and instead of rushing for our torches and pitchforks, let legal issues work their way through the legal system, and we as individuals can make our judgements after a judge or jury have decided to do so.
I feel that my dude. I feel that